The Reality

[SeattleDrumKing]

Guys, instead of being stubborn, listen up. Colaiuta is not God on the drums. HA! He's an amazing player who founded a style coming out of Tony and Gadd, including musical usage of odd groupings via Gary Chaffee.
I have countless drum tracks of his through various engineer and producer friends, Seven Days, Night Shift, tunes off of Stevie Nicks last album, Shawn Colvin's Fat City and Michelle Branch's previous to last album the spirit room. He doesn't nail the click, EVER. John Shanks told me that used the beat doctor on Vinnie's parts. That's a quantizer. So listen, think whatever makes you happy. But the reality is, Vinnie is genius, bit his time is not perfect, and he doesn't make the click dissappear. I'm sure he could if that was his goal. He is in the middle of the first call list for his groove and his ability to nail a track within 2 takes. In fact, I have Vinnie on a Kate Bush album where there quite a few late kick drum beats.
Let's not live in a fantasy, the man is human. And whoever said he could play be-bop, please...don't insult jazz. Be-Bop is a language, and it's not Chick Corea. Although Chick knows it, he used it as a foundation. Vinnie Colaiuta himself can tell you, he doesn't play Be-Bop. Ask him. I did. He also told me he's not very fond of Latin music.
Before you make a comment like that, pick up a be-bop recording, like a Clifford Brown and Max Roach CD. You'll hear a huge difference.
Vinnie Colaiuta is my favorite drummer. So I'm not trying to take anything away from him, because that's imppossible. I'm just shedding some light for some of you, because some of these comments make a few of you sound musically illiterate. Thems the facts people.
And although I really want to, I can't MP3 you the tracks I have. I'd get into a lot of trouble.
I have some of Kenny Aronoff's takes too, You'd die! He gets so far off the click. But when you hear the tracks without the click, they are GROOVIN! Go figure.

[Flarobstix]

Damn!
How did you get all of those?
I agree on the bebop comment. I met Vinnie a few times, and he openly talks about that and the fact that he doesn't really
like latin. Its so funny you say that.
I remember Shawn Pelton telling me that nailing the click isn't always the way to go. I bet you it's a conscious decision on Vinnie's part. Sometimes it can stunt the energy of a track.
And Vinnie's tracks always have that great energy. Even ballads.
I hear you though SDK. He doesn't do it all. he's just a master of a particular style of playing. One of my favorites as well.
I saw him with Chaka Kahn and the time was, let's say " very human". But it felt great. Like Bernard Purdie. I sae him live a few times and he rushed like a mad man. He's on more recordings than JR. So it's not always about being perfect.

[SeattleDrumKing]

I have 6 pretty close friends that I went to school with. 3 of them are top engineers that work on tons of great sessions, 2 are producers, and 1 is mastering engineer at Master Disk in NYC. And I'm a mediocre drummer. :-)

[Steve Holmes]

instead of being stubborn, listen up.
Nice.
Ya know, I really don't have a problem with anyone saying negative things about the drummers we tend to like more than others. I encourage discussion of all kinds. Plus, I'm a big believer in recognizing weakness as well as strengths in my favorite players.
What I do have a problem with is anyone expressing their opinion in a condescending tone (please...don't insult jazz. ). In a tone that insinuates that they are aware of information that is so obvious to them that anyone that doesn't agree is not as smart and doesn't see as clearly.
He doesn't nail the click, EVER.
That was funny. Continuing on I'll take "Ignorant Generalizations" for two-hundred Alex.

The sad thing is if your point was presented in a mature tone then maybe people would take you seriously. It's too late for that unfortunately so have fun reading the responses you get now, as opposed to ones you could have gotten had your post been presented more constructively.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 02, 2005 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>

[Randy walker]

i think it was done more as their way of getting 'back' so to speak at what I wrote about another drummer often mentioned.
replying directly to this topic would not serve much.

[SeattleDrumKing]

I'm sorry Steve, you're right. I am not an elequant writer or speaker for that matter. I meant, "EVER" on the tracks I have. I can't speak for his entire discography. I hope I didn't come off negatively. Sorry if I did. I also have immense respect for the Be-Bop language, I get testy when I hear comments that are not only off in my opinion, but off with the history of american music. You know what I mean, you're a studied musician.
You went to P.I.T right? It's like saying Ralph Humphrey can play like Chuck Flores. HA!
But other than that I agree with you. I can come off like a harsh teacher. Maybe because that's my day gig. For those who are offended by my delivery accept my appologies in advance.

[tombo74]

Originally posted by SDK:
Guys, instead of being stubborn, listen up.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We'd like to listen up to those tracks to make our own opinion and maybe be less stubborn. But apparantly it's impossible.

Also, I never understood what was the big deal in nailing a click. For any experienced player, this is the easy part IMO. Now, getting off of it on purpose to give the song a different character is the hard part, and what makes a player unique IMO.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 02, 2005 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Tombo 7/4 ]</font>

[troutbrooke]

Originally posted by SDK:
I can come off like a harsh teacher. Maybe because that's my day gig.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you teach?

[troutbrooke]

I know I shouldn't be replying to such a post....but....

Let me just say that it's topics such as this one, started merely to instigate something, that drag a forum to its knees.

Drummers are musicians first. Click tracks are reference points. Music comes first. Music and drumming is not a competitive sport. Shame on you.

[CLWarunki]

Nobody ever said he was or is perfect, and no one is. Nothing is perfect. Perfection does not exist, any educated or logical person will understand this concept.